Both sides together

Recently, on both sides of the Atlantic, the same sort of question occupied the minds of Glen of Imaal Terrier people; internet advertising of puppies. Are ebay classifieds, google and free listing, rather than personal websites, the places for Glens? The majority seemed to come down heavily on the side of “certainly not” but that leads to the next question of where are people supposed to advertise then? The old (but quite valid) thing used to be that a litter was never bred until firm orders had already been received but Glens often have big litters also we are living in peculiar economic times. So what is somebody supposed to do when their bitch whelps eight or nine pups or half your firm orders suddenly don’t happen because a job has been lost or redundancy may threaten?

In an ideal world the old values would still stand but they just don’t anymore. The internet rules our lives and that includes selling puppies so we all need to adjust our thoughts. Rather than gasping in horror when asked about a web advertised litter shouldn’t we try to be pleased that the person enquiring is doing more investigating and be as gracious as if it were just an “old-fashioned” telephone call? Help out as much as possible but do remember to pass on the bottom line; any photographs admired via an internet advert may not be the animals mentioned unless it specifically says so so do see the parents and puppies before agreeing to buy!

 

13 thoughts on “Both sides together

  1. A breeder is a person who practices the” vocation” of mating carefully selected specimens of the same breed to reproduce specific, consistently replicable qualities and characteristics!
    A person who is multiplying animals for money ……….is referred as a breeder too.

  2. Woody i agree with you but you left out ability to do the job its bred ie fit for function and temperament and to ensure the animal is passed on to responsible new owners for they are the most important and something that some people show and others forget breeding any form of livestock. Look at the great work done by MFHA and ISDA in breeding good types and yet animals for work if only some of the pedigree dog set would look at this and a good farming methods of husbandry.
    A person who breeds for money is a breeder Fact some may not like it but frankly its nobodys buisness but thiers. I find at time a little hypocracy in the show world in breeding matters people telling others what they can and cannot do in breeding and then look at the health problems that have occured and are still ongoing.
    I would like to add if they can make money out of it whats wrong with that i can make money out of my sheep and poultry but never out of the dogs.

    • Hi Stephen, As cows…and sheep or chicken breeding would have been done with the same negligence as some breed glens…. cows wouldn’t give milk anymore today and…sh…
      Breeding requires at least some basic knowledge of genetics, breedgoals have to be set and new pet owners “selected”.
      Those fanciers who want dogs with a temperament for a function…should be served but unfortunately neither the environment nor culture of most contemporary pet owners “support” those characteristics.
      Did you got already the latest newsletter from the sporting club in your mailbox?
      article:
      “SELECTING A GLEN IN THE GOOD AULD DAYS WHEN GLENS WERE GLENS!”

  3. Woody i agree with you on nearly all that you say but for a good working dog temperament is crucial the last thing you need is a dog of poor temperament mind alot of owners should look in the mirror because 95% of the time if they did they would see the problem. On breeding yes knowledge is a must and just throwing dogs together is wrong and hopefully prospective buyers will shop around. They will ask the right questions and have done thier homework and say no if i think one of our dogs is not suitable for someones bitch we have said no and if we think they havent a clue on breeding we will speak to them and give them advice.

    Only recently we turned down 2 people wanting to use are males 1 bitch was only 18 months old and the 2nd had not been DNA tested this person we also gave advice this was not heeded they then went to a lady who also said no but they went abroad and got thier bitch served. This against all advice aka accord agreed at the stud dog meeting but at least ourselves and the lady who also declined the serve did the right thing. I hope that people stop and think because Woody they are not doing the breed or themselves any good in the long run.

  4. this is one hot topic here in the USA. In order for the breed to continue breeding must occur. Breeders who know and follow the breed standards are usually doing the best the think right. Not all puppies are placed before birth and as Liz pointed out, life circumstances change nulling a pre-breeding placement. I think the difference between magazine advertizing of the old days vs internet is the abilty to research the breeder more fully no than when an avert was followed up on. So in some ways the internet is superior IMHO for that. It’s a shame if puppies don’t get placed in a good time with reference to on-going training at the age they need it to avoid possibly any issues with temperament later. I have no answers but so much can be said on this topic. Buyer Beware

  5. Stephen,
    A year and a half ago, I recommended your stud dog to someone on the mainland.
    (Trial pedigree was very promising & same type) and by now both are “clear”!
    I think, the breeder (bitch owner) should always have a fair list of his/her breed goals commented with decent arguments.
    Finally,It always takes two to tango.

  6. Woody and Steve, great points but what about internet advertising? Have you done it/would you do it?

    • The ideal way, to me is to announce well beforehand a ” mating intention” well commented by the breeder (breed goals), pedigrees and trial pedigree of the combination available. So interested buyers can officially sign in on a pup….Can be the breed clubs website or personnal (kennel website. I have no problems with selling pups by internet…only the way it’s actually done bothers me. example
      http://www.donedeal.ie/find/dogs/for-sale/Ireland/glen%20of%20imaal

      • You don’t mention health testing, Woody! And only one of those puppy adverts refers to PRA:

        The dam has a PRA status of “not affected”

        My older bitch (now 11½ years) also had a PRA status of “not affected” for all her eye tests up to the age of seven, when she was diagnosed as “PRA affected”. My younger bitch’s eye test results are “not affected” … she is a carrier for Glen PRA (GPRA-crd3). (Both my girls have been DNA tested since the gene mutation – ADAM9 deletion – was identified via US and German research projects, and testing became available at OptiGen and Bochum in June/July last year).

        So … what does the statement – The dam has a PRA status of “not affected” – mean? It simply means that, on the day of the eye test, that bitch showed no clinical signs of PRA. Her GENETIC status could be Clear or Carrier … or “not-yet-affected” ……

        For any potential Glen of Imaal Terrier puppy buyers reading this thread … BUYER BEWARE!

        PRA (progressive retinal atrophy) is a recognised health problem in the Glen. Glens that are affected with the GPRA-crd3 variant the disease, have 2 copies of the gene mutation (one copy from each parent), and will gradually lose their sight, although age of onset and progression of disease is highly variable.

        Now that we have a DNA test for this disease, no Glen puppy need now be born that is at risk of developing GPRA-crd3.

        To ensure this, at least ONE parent needs to have been DNA tested CLEAR for GPRA-crd3.

        Do the adverts provide any assurance that the puppies are not at risk of developing GPRA-crd3? NO!!! Have the breeders of these puppies had their breeding stock DNA tested for GPRA-crd3? I doubt it, otherwise this information would surely appear in the adverts … alongside the assurances that the puppies are IKC (Irish Kennel Club) registered, vaccinated, wormed, microchipped.

        In the UK, we are fortunate to have many health test results published by the Kennel Club. The results of UK-registered Glen of Imaal Terrier DNA test results for GPRA-crd3 can be accessed via the following links: http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/3384

        Clear: http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/download/9974/glenpraclears.pdf
        Carrier: http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/download/9973/glenpracarriers.pdf
        Affected: http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/download/9972/glenpraaffecteds.pdf

        *** If puppy buyers want the assurance that their Glen puppy is not at risk of developing GPRA-crd3 and going blind, then they are best advised not to respond to adverts that make no mention of DNA testing for GPRA-crd3.

        If puppy buyers are buying in the UK, results can be checked via the above links. If puppy buyers are bringing in a puppy from another country, ask to see the DNA test certificates of both parents and ensure that at least one has a CLEAR result (2 normal genes).

        Breed club secretaries can be helpful in directing puppy buyers to responsible breeders who employ safe breeding strategies.

      • Just to expand a little on the statement:

        To ensure this, at least ONE parent needs to have been tested CLEAR for GPRA-crd3

        This result will be recorded on the DNA test certificate.

        OR … at least ONE parent needs to be “HEREDITARY CLEAR” – in the UK, this will be documented on the registration certificate.

  7. Alison i suggest that its about time prospective owner took the lead and dont buy its simple and in the UK the Glen owners who attended the meeting agreed to the propsals set and have stood by them but you cannot force people to adhere as we have already found out.
    You write about do the adverts have this or that !!!!!! that is up to the buyer to ask and the breeder to decide not me or you no matter what are personal views are. This goes on with all breeds of dogs/cats and various livestock and its about time the buyers do beware but some will not and do not, they want thier pup yesterday and will not wait and dont listen to advice belive me . We have had people who wont wait so they will go anywhere how do you stop the i want syndrome some people can get very stroppy. .
    I belive in the UK we are doing are best on the whole and the same in Eire on the whole but we cannot stop people doing this we just need to give all prospective owners the facts and let them decide. On the english kc isnt it time they stopped allowing the advertisement of untested stock of
    all breeds on the website which they still allow that needs addressing . Just look at a breed very close to my heart the border collie and the amout of untested stock bought and sold all we can do is to try and educate and get the new onwers to actually take responsibility and say no.

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