Yep, no problem

Overnight a couple of emails have come in asking if the following can appear as a main blog post because people who receive notification direct to their mobiles and i-pod often don’t pick up comments.

The following was posted by Ali in reply to “It’s just as things panned out”

UK Glen of Imaal Terrier litters born in 2008, 2009, 2010 plus the first litter registered in 2011 total:

27 litters – 154 puppies – from 13 stud dogs owned by 10 UK owner/breeders and one Irish breeder.

One breeder, who owns 2 of the stud dogs, lives in Ireland.  These 2 dogs have each sired one UK-registered litter over this time.

The other 11 stud dogs – 10 owners/kennels – are UK resident.

One stud dog has produced 48 puppies from 9 litters – that’s one third of the litters and just shy of one third of the total puppies.

One stud dog has sired 3 litters over this time (20 puppies); he has sired another 3 litters prior to 2008.

Four stud dogs have each sired 2 litters over this time.  One of these dogs has sired another 2 litters prior to 2008; one dog has sired another 4 litters prior to 2008; one dog has sired another 5 litters prior to 2008

Five stud dogs have each sired 1 litter over this time.  One of these dogs has sired another 2 litters prior to 2008 and one dog has sired another 1 litter prior to 2008.

Of the 13 stud dogs, almost two-thirds are Irish-bred:

5 were bred in the UK
6 are Irish imports
2 are resident in Ireland

Of the 13 stud dogs, just over half have GPRA-crd3 results published:

6 of the 11 UK-resident stud dogs
1 of the 2 dogs in Ireland

31 thoughts on “Yep, no problem

  1. In Sweden an overproducing male with too many offspring is called a “Matador”.
    Matador was an intensively used bull in the northerly part of Sweden. He carried a gene for testicular hypoplasia, too small testicles, causing reduced fertility. Due to the intensive use of the bull, the deleterious gene spread rapidly over the entire local bovine population. It took several decades of selection against the gene to repair the damage caused by overuse of what once seemed to be a male of exceptionally high quality as a breeding animal.
    I hope those two “MATADORS” who together produced nearly half of pups were “clear”?
    and also……. 27 litters does not mean 27 different bitches! I guess.

    • Dearest Woody

      If you are going to profess your love for me, please can you reveal to me your true identity …?!


      • Love your “pragmatism” (answers straight to the point )and…..curiosity.
        Keep, reading my writings, that explains a lot who I am.
        Don Quichoté

  2. The two dogs are belive my Fred who is a clear and a fit,strong health dog and Kathy Geogres Tommy who was a carrier .

    • Stephen

      Tommy is not one of the stud dogs in the report. The last litter registered in the UK and sired by him was born in November 2007 – the report is for litters born 2008 onwards.

  3. Another point Woody have a look back to the 1980s and 90s the stud dog pool for glens in the UK was smaller and far more controlled by a number of people who TOLD you what to do.

    • Stephen

      Do you have figures to back up your statement?

      What about direct comparisons between the numbers given in this thread for 2008, 2009 & 2010 and:

      1988, 1989, 1990

      and also:

      1998, 1999, and 2000

      • Stephen

        Having had a look back, I think your statement, “back to the 1980s and 90s the stud dog pool for glens in the UK was smaller” could be called into question …

        1998, 1999, 2000 + first litter born in 2001

        19 stud dogs then (compared to 13 now) – that’s 46% more stud dogs used over the same three years in the nineties as the three years in the noughties.

        36 litters then (compared to 27 now) – that’s 33% more litters born over the same three years in the nineties as the three years in the noughties.

        9 dogs: 1 litter over the three years
        7 dogs: 2 litters over the three years
        2 dogs: 4 litters over the three years
        1 dog: 5 litters over the three years

        171 puppies then (compared to 154 now) – that’s 11% more puppies born over the same three years in the nineties as the three years in the noughties.

        The most puppies produced by any one stud dog over the three years then is 25, compared to 48 from one stud dog recently.

        6 Irish imports + one import from Germany – that’s nearly two thirds “home grown” stud dogs used then compared with about one third now.

        I’m not sure of the total number of stud dog owners then but I think it is probably similar to or fewer than the number now … the difference being that more stud dog owners owned more than one stud dog then …

  4. From people who were around then Liz and ive had Glens since i was a child 49yrs.

    • Sorry folks, this was not my intention!

      The past….is the past…..important is to learn from errors, and … avoid them in the future.
      Cooperation between ALL breeders/owners is needed to lower inbreed % & affinity and get healty glens again.

    • Back in the 80s and 90s Glen people were actually a group that said “no” to bitches (and people) that weren’t considered suitable. What’s the difference between that and what you often refer to now-the meeting of Stud Dog owners and their decisions? Anybody who is refused now will be the same as anybody 25 years ago; they don’t like it and probably give quite a biased account of events. It’s known as human nature not getting what they want.

    • Stephen

      David and I have also had dogs since we were children … but there was a 20-year gap – (studying, setting up home, getting married, having a baby!!) – with no dogs living with us before we started our Glen family!

      Is that the same for you …?!

  5. Anyway its up to the owners of dog and bitch if they are mated using the DNA marker thank god we do not have the dutch system or a breed master telling you what to mate up too. Thier are marked differences of opinion in the UK about what a glen should look like and we arent going to agree.

    • Stephen

      The Cornell and Bochum research teams did better than find a marker … they identified the rogue gene!

      The DNA test for GPRA-crd3 is a direct mutation test for the ADAM9 deletion.

    • Stephen,
      THE BREEDMASTERS are the judges! They “make or brake” a dogtype……. in all breeds!
      It’s in their jobdiscription…..Guiding and controlling the breeding of dogs!

  6. Woody your spot on working together but you need two to tango nobody is blameless breeding fit for purpose and keeping the glen to that ideal “Fit and Health. On history your right learn from the mistakes of the past and buy a mirror i work with some breeders mainly in Eire for this very reason.

  7. The English show dogs are getting to big, if we ar’nt careful the breed will go the same way as the Basset, Bulldog and other certain breeds. The old boys in Ireland call them big balls of fluff. No concern is shown towards the weight, they are getting to heavy, 40 to 50 pounds is not acceptable.

  8. to be fair Glenn its not only the English dogs that are big. The sire of my male is a big glen and he is 100% Irish! the English bred bitch met the standard…..

  9. Agreed there are big bred dogs in Ireland, but they certainly ar’nt popular with people that have kept and worked Glens for years in Ireland. I was personally told that by a very experienced Irish Glen man.

  10. But it wasn’t the working men that have that brought the Glen to the world stage.

    Would the Glen of Imaal Terrier still exist if not recognised by the IKC?

  11. The working men ensured it was correct type, also when Mr Dobbyns judged the 2008 sporting clubs show, he used the scales provided occasionally, hardly the actions of someone who is not bothered about heavy dogs. His judging notes can be viewed in the archive section of The Irish Glen of Imaal Terrier Sporting Club of Ireland.

  12. Sorry Woody, meant to refer to a very important and valid point you made earlier, the genetic inbreed % should be as low as possible and something that breeders should take in to consideration and place more importance in.

  13. No Sue but the working men made the breed and whats left of us are not going to have it ruined like so may breeds of terrier who are now about as much use as a chocolate fireguard by some show people not all but some.I suggest that you speak to Sean Lawlor, Paddy Brennan Jnr Keith Murphy and others and ask them thier opinions Sean saw the great Tinahely Lad in actions as of course did Paddy . They have seen some of the Glens on the world stage i suggest you ask them thier opinion a glens and how they would like to them improved ” FIT FOR FUNCTION”. Sue also says would the breed still exist yes i belive it would look at the Lakeland,Fell,Wheaten,Patterdale etc they exist and many lines have no kc dogs in them.
    In the past to be a real champion they had to win in the ring and in the shore and thier were only two duel champions Pride of the Valleys and Fearless Dan though Tinahely lad won a certificate in a Mor trial 1 day and two days later won at the St.Patricks day show and came very close . Mick the Miller and Red Ned i saw the progeny of the last 3 mentioned as dad had dogs direct of Frank Fallon from 1957 and they are NOT the same as some show dogs now . Thats not just my opinion ask the aforementioned men the problem today is alot of glen breeders havent even seen photos of the above dogs or know thier history and some people who as two dutch ladies who spoke to me at crufts DO want to change the breed and have no interest whatsoever in its history or its purpose .We are not going to stand by and let are great breed be ruined by some and i stress some who only see the breed as a “show animal” it can be duel purpose Glenn mentioned fitness again lets get the scales out lets see dogs really fit for purpose.

  14. On weight and height ive seen 16inch wheatens draw in a shore they can get to ground but they are really fit and thier have been big dogs but the duel champs did and best working glens ive seen none were over 40lb .

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