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Hair today but what tomorrow?

14 Aug

The Glen of Imaal Terrier is a trimmed breed. If you want to leave it as a hairy monster and just post cute pictures for friends to see your Glen won’t mind but after a few dubious, untidy years the world-wide jury has firmly come down in favour of the show Glen actually being able to be seen by the judge.

30 years ago the first show trimming words were written and then the first chart was drawn up. That guideline has been basically followed through out the international exhibition world and still appears on both personal and breed club websites. Is it time though now to update it?

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22 Comments

Posted by on August 14, 2013 in General Glen Things

 

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22 responses to “Hair today but what tomorrow?

  1. Alison

    August 14, 2013 at 12:05 pm

    As this is a UK site, perhaps we should show photos of Glens with tails … (sorry, Liz!) … and what they should look like … my trimming of a docked tail is very different to what I do with a full tail!

     
    • E-F-G

      August 14, 2013 at 5:23 pm

      Has anybody actually decided what to do with a full tail trim? Surely it depends on carriage?

       
      • Glenn

        August 17, 2013 at 8:09 pm

        World-wide jury? Who and where because they certainly have’nt made their voices heard on here.

         
  2. kathy george

    August 14, 2013 at 1:28 pm

    just read the comment re trimming of the glen. the standard says ‘medium length and may be tidied to present a neat outline’ so this is what should be done. this fashion for showing dogs stripped to within an inch of its life is incorrect. when i first came into the breed and presented mine a bit trimmed and tidied i was told that glens were a breed not to be messed about with. has this now changed to suit judges who i have heard say ‘but they look so much better trimmed’. better to who? the glen was a working dog and its coat protects it when going through undergrowth and also stops things irritating the skin. also a glen should have a double coat a soft undercoat and harsh top coat. so when strippped in the fashion described there is no soft undercoat. so do people who strip their dog only do this because their dog does not have a correct coat to start with

     
  3. Stephen Holmes

    August 14, 2013 at 2:08 pm

    Well said Kathy the group of English womens craze of stripping them to have a coat like a staffie or a manchester is ridiculous it just goes show that “fit for function” is a joke to some of show people.
    Hairy monster what sort of statement is that READ the standard oh but lets change it to suit the way “we” promote the breed the way we strip and prepare are dogs down to the skin.
    If you dont like the standard or the coat lenght i suggest Liz you keep Staffies or Manchesters.
    The Glens coat is its crowning glory but not to the group here bent on changing are breed i and i can only speak for myself will fight you into the ground on this LIz stop trying to change are great breed HANDS OFF!

     
  4. Marty Dagneau Bates

    August 14, 2013 at 4:46 pm

    Enjoyed re-reading the links! I’ve been out of the ring for a few years but attended a show mid year. I was appalled to see the coats stripped to as Kathy says, “within an inch of it’s life”! The standard here in the USA reads “medium length”. This is a rather vague description granted but it doesn’t mean 1 inch for the jacket does it? And heads? Sure we want to see the real head but hair so short it looks frizzy? The coats I saw may be an abberation of the area but they didn’t look the coat on the Glen in the above link. Many of those who owned Glens for quite awhile before AKC membership mentioned that once the professional handlers got ahold of them the coats would change to those of the very short jacketed breeds. Lo and behold it wasn’t the pros it’s the owners.

     
  5. E-F-G

    August 14, 2013 at 5:21 pm

    Interesting comments but they generally indicate (to me) that the people who have replied aren’t too skilled in the trimming department and don’t maybe understand what they see in a newly stripped coat. Glen coats grow very fast indeed and it is possible within eight weeks to go from a newly stripped animal to one in very presentable (to anybody) jacket.
    Whether they should be shown when the coat is still at a short length is up to each and every owner. The original blog point though was should the trimming chart-that both you Steve and Kathy have had your exhibition Glens done to, and I know because I’ve done them-now be taken to the next level from the basic form it’s in?

    Liz

     
  6. sue

    August 14, 2013 at 6:55 pm

    “A Glen of Imaal Terrier does not require much trimming and some purists may complain if any is done. The only way forward for the breed is in the showring and thereby increasing peoples awareness. Better that a moderate trim is adopted now rather than to awaken one day to find it has been excessively barbered or is blessed with hair trailing to the floor.” seems to sum things up but unfortunately the nature of a harsh coat means that if left unstripped texture is lost but if stripped out tthe coat takes time to regrow to optimum length. Show entries are made weeks in advance and cost money so is everyone going to leave the Glen with the not quite ready coat at home?

     
    • kathy george

      August 14, 2013 at 8:49 pm

      re the comment from sue: i strip my glens out completely at least twice a year, i still show when it is grown enough to look ‘human’. i am not talking about that, i am talking about those who strip and leave the very short length intentionally with no undercoat and closer than a welsh terrier even. re the stripping diagram it never was very impressive as a glen! it was a drawn dog with zig zag coat. i don’t know why a photo of a good glen is not used outlinining as before the places to strip and leave. i like my dogs tidy when shown but not intentionally bald.This fashion of putting a dog because it is close coated is the fault of the judges. we should not follow fashion but the breed standard

       
  7. Glenn

    August 14, 2013 at 9:04 pm

    I think we could take a tip from the Scandinavian countries, not only are they breeding some brilliant dogs at the moment (only discussing this with a breeder from Ireland on saturday) but their dogs look great in the ring. Very natural yet neat, they show respect to the breed. Sorry EFG but i think some of your English show dogs look more like Dandie Dinmonts. Also a bit of cheap shot at the people who replied about not being skilled. There are more important things to worry about like size, jaws and bone. Regards

     
  8. Glenn

    August 14, 2013 at 9:09 pm

    Ps i prefer the dog before his trim.

     
  9. Alison

    August 14, 2013 at 9:34 pm

    HER trim, Glenn … and the “after” soon became the “before” again!

     
  10. Glenn

    August 14, 2013 at 10:27 pm

    Sorry Alison, her trim.

     
  11. Stephen Holmes

    August 14, 2013 at 10:45 pm

    Liz since when has Kathy NOT been skilled in the trimming dept and please dont try and change the subject why do the English women want to change things maybe because the il informed all round judges like it . They tend to put up the manchester/staffie coated dogs . If you dont like the standard keep manchesters or staffies dont screw up the breed read the standard.
    Im surprised you and Mrs Boswell are that bothered you dont keep Glens anymore!

     
    • E-F-G

      August 15, 2013 at 6:29 am

      Steve, don’t tempt me…okay I’m tempted. You don’t really exhibit Glens-as you often tell me- but are participating (and welcome) in a post regarding updating a basic trimming chart for showing. Cheap shot I know but like does beget like.
      From what has been said both on here and via email it is obviously time it had some work done on it
      Liz

       
  12. Glenn

    August 15, 2013 at 8:31 am

    There has been to much interference with the Glen over the past 30 years a lot of it detrimental. I think we should respect it for what the breed is a hardy terrier that needed its coat for all conditions. If the only way forward is showing you can say goodbye to this great breed. Lastly i would like to point out the dog is a native Irish breed, we are English, what gives us the right to change things?

     
    • Debby

      August 16, 2013 at 1:58 pm

      I am learning about the glen and I attended a breed seminar and the standard should not be changed, I’ve been taught that you show them as natural as possible and its the judges who need to know the standard

       
      • Glenn

        August 16, 2013 at 9:59 pm

        Well said Debby!

         
  13. Stephen Holmes

    August 15, 2013 at 1:14 pm

    Liz i do show the odd time but myself and others arent going because as i have proven over the last few years with a number shows i have written the result down before the show and been proven correct on quite a few occassions, and frankly ive got better things to do with my time and money. I know of some very good dogs that arent getting a look in due to the person on the end of lead and i do not include my own in that statement. Judges are meant to judge to the standard it isnt happening in a number of cases read what they say it proves they dont know the standard or havent bothered to even look at the dog.
    You either have a standard or you have whims I will have the standard thanks.

     
  14. suendai

    August 15, 2013 at 2:45 pm

    being a relative newcomer to this breed and not and expert by any means, I have tried not to mess about with the coat too much a nice trim around the genital area and the tail end around the chest and neck is all that I do. I have a great rake tool that I use on the back and sides that brings out the dead hair without taking away too much coat. I did, after my bitch having puppies strip out the coat completely it looked horrendous but happily it soon grew back again.

     
  15. Alison

    August 15, 2013 at 9:54 pm

    I think that a “harsh” coat is often confused with a “dead” coat. Talking to a newcomer to the breed some time ago, she had been specifically told not to strip her dog because “stripping ruins the coat” … She thought that her never-stripped, 18-month old Glen had a harsh coat. To me the coat was of good length, but dull and thin … and “dead”. I asked her what happens in the rain … does the rain just run off the coat or does the dog get soaked to the skin …? The dog gets soaked to the skin … Surely a good coat that is “fit for function” should be waterproof … a dog that gets soaked through to the skin is not going to work as well as as one whose skin is dry and warm because it has a “correct” coat.

    I strip my dogs … by that, I mean that I pull all the long, outer hairs of the jacket and leave behind the undercoat. I keep the undercoat short and tidy over the few weeks it takes for the new jacket to start coming in. Ears are also stripped and then head, chest, tail and feathers are “tidied to present a neat outline” … I don’t show the dogs just after I’ve stripped them … but they will be shown in both short and longer (correct) coat, as the new new jacket grows.

    Here is a charming video clip of a pack of working Sealyham Terriers … all these working terriers are sporting very short jackets and not much in the way of leg hair …

    http://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/search/?q=sealyham+terriers

    For me, a stripped coat i.e. soft undercoat with harsh, waterproof outer jacket … of any length … is preferable to a longer, harsh, “dead” (unstripped) jacket … and more in line with the coat required by a working terrier.

     
  16. Stephen Holmes

    August 15, 2013 at 10:50 pm

    I dont disagree with stripping the dead coat out for new growth when its coming i do but not think stripping dogs to the skin is and read what Kathy says Alison and reply to what she says . I know Harry, Alison ive been out with them but these dogs DONT go to ground. I agree with keeping them tidy but not skin stripped a good double coat not a staffie coat.
    On that coat assertion what about Otterhounds working? they only hunt full but what is being suggested is can be seen by the judge unless the judge is blind and cannot get their hands on a dog a feel muscle if they are neither of the aforementioned they should get hold and go over the dog feel the muscle. Ive seen CC judging this year were the judge didnt even put his hands on dogs properly these people dont know what Glens are they dont own them and read what they say.
    I am against any change to suit stripped out Glens thats NOT what the standard says judges please note!

     
 
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