“Are you now doing Fridays as the serious day?” Friday can be “serious” for as long as folk want to send items that may be of interest to Glen of Imaal Terrier owners, breeders, enthusiasts or followers……so keep them coming!
Vulnerable Breeds: How small is too small? is today’s blog to consider and muse over a cup of tea
Enthusiasts & Fanciers of Glens 
Interesting reading!
From the article: “We can calculate the effective population sizes (Ne) ………… using a simple formula:
Ne = (4 x Nm x Nf) / (Nm + Nf)
where Nm and Nf are the number of males and females, respectively, bred per generation or per year.”
The calculations for Glens (in the UK) for each of the past 4 years:
2014 : 16
2013 : 13
2012 : 19
2011 : 17
The EFG has just approved the following on their Code of Ethics (“Best Practice” guidelines):
“Dog not to produce more than six UK-bred litters over the course of his lifetime”
Should we also be considering the number of litters produced by any one male in any one year?
From the article: “So for breeds like ……… the Skye, Sealyham, and Glen of Imaal terriers, with registration numbers of 20-50 per year, Ne will be 20 or less. For many of these breeds, the average litter size we’re assuming (5) might be on the high size because of inbreeding depression, and if there are males siring more than one litter per year, the true effective population sizes could be in the single digits.”
2014 (10 litters born) : One male sired 2 litters; another male sired 3 litters
2013 (10 litters born) : Three males each sired 2 litters; one male sired 3 litters
2012 (12 litters born) : Two males each sired 2 litters; one male sired 3 litters
2011 (11 litters born) : Two males each sired 2 litters; one male sired 3 litters
If we had been able to use a different sire for each female, the Ne for each year would have been 20+:
2014 would have been 20
2013 would have been 20
2012 would have been 24
2011 would have been 22
On males no its down to the individual to choose not organisations or politburos like the unidentified KC committees. I see where your coming from Alison but you cannot tell people what dog/bull/ram to use! On the chillingham herd what the story doesnt say is their are 5 other herds of wild white catte and bulls have been swopped around and the biggest problem is congenital diseases and of course the dreaded consumption or TB.
On litter sizes we average 9 per litter Glens have on what i know always had big litters! and on organisations taking control of breeding beware Norfolk horn sheep had been maintained by one man contolling the last flock. When he died it was passed to London zoo at whipsnade and then the national agricultural centre at Stoneleigh,The result was a disaster thee breed died outin only 14 years and was recreated by farmers using 95% pur stock.
Scientists and genetasisits didnt have the basic stock knowledge and bothced it plenty of brains but no commonsense or stock sense.
Stephen
I am NOT telling people what to do or what dog to use!
The Breeders’ Section of the EFG’s “Code of Ethics”… (democratically agreed at the AGM) … is to provide “Best Practice” guidelines for breeders, especially new breeders.
This article challenges breeders to consider the long-term consequences to a breed of using a single dog multiple times … and I have simply provided some figures and calculations to put things into perspective for our breed in the UK … for discussion, rather than dismissal! 😦
You have written, “On litter sizes we average 9 per litter Glens have on what i know always had big litters!” Where have you got that figure from …?
My calculations, based on litters born over the 4-year period from 2011 to 2014, illustrate that we have averaged 5.6(!) puppies per litter … 242 puppies from 43 litters. No single dog, other than one who has sired a single litter of 9 puppies, has an average of 9 puppies for the litters they have produced over this period.
Here’s a link for anyone who wishes to check out the calculations, which exclude the two litters listed for 2010 and the one litter currently listed for 2015.
Click to access crd3sires.pdf
The Glen is a numerically small breed with a correspondingly small gene pool … and I think we should be trying to look at ways to avoid further erosion of genetic diversity within our breed.
From FCI INTERNATIONAL BREEDING STRATEGIES:
“To preserve, or preferably extend, the genetic diversity of the breed, matador breeding and
heavy inbreeding should be avoided. …………… As a general recommendation no dog should have more offspring than equivalent to 5% of the number of puppies registered in the breed population
during a five-year period. The size of the breed population should be looked upon not only on
national but also on international level, especially in breeds with few individuals.”
Ref: http://www.fci.be/medias/ELE-REG-STR-en-451.pdf
In the UK, we have averaged 55 new puppy registrations per year since 2000. Over a 5-year period, that would be 275 puppies.
5% of 275 is 13.75
FCI breeding strategy would suggest that we should recommend no more than 2 or 3 litters from a single stud dog in any 5-year period … based on our average litter size of 5 – 6 puppies per litter.
Food for thought for breeders ………
During the years 2011 – 2014, 43 litters (242 puppies) have been sired by 20 different males
These 20 different males have sired (to end of 2014) a total of 70 litters (396 puppies) between them
[7 of the 20 males sired 25 litters (154 puppies) between them, pre-2011]
Male 1 has sired 6 litters (37 puppies) to 6 females over 6y 1m (2 litters pre-2011)
Male 2 has sired 1 litter (4 puppies)
Male 3 has sired 2 litters (14 puppies) to 2 females over 1y 3m
Male 4 has sired 2 litters (14 puppies) to 1 female over 1y 1m
Male 5 has sired 5 litters (29 puppies) to 5 females over 2y 2m
Male 6 has sired 2 litters (16 puppies) to 1 female over 1 y 4m (1 litter pre-2011)
Male 7 has sired 1 litter (5 puppies)
Male 8 has sired 9 litters (45 puppies) to 8 females over 5y 10m (6 litters pre-2011)
Male 9 has sired 1 litter (2 puppies)
Male 10 has sired 1 litter (9 puppies)
Male 11 has sired 1 litter (6 puppies)
Male 12 has sired 13 litters (68 puppies) to 13 females over 4y 4m (8 litters pre-2011)
Male 13 has sired 7 litters (49 puppies) to 6 females over 5y 1m (6 litters pre-2011)
Male 14 has sired 2 litters (15 puppies) to 2 females over 0y 7m
Male 15 has sired 1 litter (3 puppies)
Male 16 has sired 4 litters (24 puppies) to 4 females over 7y 3m (3 litters pre-2011)
Male 17 has sired 6 litters (25 puppies) to 6 females over 1y 7m
Male 18 has sired 1 litter (4 puppies)
Male 19 has sired 3 litters (20 puppies) to 3 females over 0y 2m
Male 20 has sired 2 litters (7 puppies) to 2 females over 2y (1 litters pre-2011)
[7 of the 20 males sired 25 litters (154 puppies) between them, pre-2011]
Apologies … that should be 27 litters
Alison Im not saying your saying it ! its not personal its just i dont like groups like the FCI or KC trying to tell people what and how to breed their record on dog welfare is poor : puppy farmers around the uk: Ive heard all this before the RBST nearly with the help of London Zoo and National agricultural centre ruined and then nearly the new Norfolk horn sheep.
Instead of using Suffolk the Norfolks closest relative they used swaledales,Wiltshire Horn etc luckily some farmers and breeders used the Suffolk and kept the breed viable. They didnt need breed stratergies from upon high they used stockmanship and commomsense.
The MFHA hasnt needed FCI breeding advice to keep the working foxhound sound working sheepdogs the same “not to be confused with the kc type” brains not beauty what practical stockmanship have these “experts” got?
On averaging 9 per litter thats what we have averaged i said “we” we Alison is me and Jan! unless you know of another partner i have? ” Jan would be interested to hear if i have Ha Ha” Alison and where have i got that from??? are breeding records i suggest you read what i say i said WE! I think i can speak for both of us on this one.
On big litter sizes speaking and listening to the old hands Alison, Eamonn Dobbyn,Frank Fallon,Sean Lawlor,Paddy Brennan and my father also seeing with my own eyes. Alison i suggest you speak to some of these only Frank and Paddy snr are gone the others are still alive and Paddy jnr still keeps Glens and forgotten more than most know!
Their is more to are breed than whats on the interweb try talking to these men and ask Liz about big litter sizes!